Dávid Bedő: “This is much, much more than just about [banning] Pride, it's about our [basic] right to assemble.”

Photo: Dávid Bedő (centre right), of the Momentum Movement, leads the party's protestors across Erzsébet Bridge in Budapest on 8th April. Screen shot - ITV Video

In the run up to the latest clashes between the government and various opposition groups on the planned amendment to the Fundamental Law and Act on the Right of Assembly in Hungary, Dávid Bedő, leader of Parliamentary Group, Momentum Movement and Dániel Döbrentey, Public Participation Program and Interim Director of the Hungarian Civil Liberties Union (HCLU/TASZ) spoke to the Hungarian International Press Association about their concerns over this issue in early April.

The following are the slightly amended transcripts of their introductions to this issue.

Dániel Döbrentey – "The prime minister has an annual speech, usually in February, and in this he announced that there won't be any Pride [Parade] this year, because the government is going to prevent it.

"According to our experience, if the prime minister says something in such a harsh way, in that case the political stakes are so high, then it must be followed by legislative acts, and that's what's happened.

"The parliamentary group of the governing parties has drafted a bill which amends several existing regulations.

"First, the Fundamental Law [or Constitition] of Hungary, though this is not in force yet. Parliament will vote on this bill next week, on the 14th.

"The second part of this legislative package amends the Act on the Freedom of Assembly, in two ways and a part of it directly focuses on the pride march, but not using the name 'Pride' or the name of the event into the law, of course, but, using a tricky method.

"Now, the act on the Freedom of Assembly refers to the act on Child Protection, a specific section of the act on Child Protection, which says, among other things, for example, not just popularising, but even presenting [in public] homosexuality is forbidden for minors.

Photo: Dániel Döbrentey, TASZ/HCLU

"And based on that, according to the government's reasoning, and of course according to the text of the adopted legislation, there won't be any obstacle in banning the pride marches.

"The second part of this amendment introduces a new tool to counter misdemeanours or petty offences, with the extended use of facial recognition systems.

"From now on, every single perpetrator of every single petty offence can be identified using facial- recognition systesms. We can talk about this in depth later, but we should look behind, at the motivation of this amendment.

"The government wants to prevent the Pride March with fines.

"So, first of all, their expectation is that nobody will be brave enough to organise this march, 'cos organising it, in spite of the ban, is a criminal offence if the organiser reports the intention of organising the march and then [proceeds] to hold it after that.

"But, particiapants will be found liable for participating in the march, and they can be fined from HUF 6,500, about EUR 15, the minimum, to the top amount of the fine, HUF 200,000, about EUR 500.

"So, the police are probably not planning to disperse the march, they would rather install facial recognition systems all around the venue.

"And these facial recognition systems, I wouldn't say automatically, but it gives a huge help to the police because they don't have to check the documents of the participants. So, it helps the police to produce the legal documents, the written decisions and the fines for the participants.

"This is the basic legal framework, but at this point it is important to note that this legislation is not in line with the European Convention of Human Rights, and not in line with basic European legislation, such as the charter of fundamental rights, and not even in line with the Hungarian constitution, because that will be amended next week with a new section saying – to summarise – that children's rights are above all other constitutional rights, except for the right for life and dignity.

"So, at the moment, it's even in conflict with the Hungarian Constitution, so the President of Republic should not have signed this amendment to the Act on the Freedom of Assembly."

Dávid Bedő: “But he did. Without a problem!

"I'd like to start a bit further back, to give you a broader perspective on what's happening in Hungary today, because in my understanding, this is about much, much more than just Budapest Pride and banning it.

"This is a process which has been on-going for 15 years now, and it has been worsening in the past two-three months.

"So, as you know, I'm sure you've been following Hungarian politics for a while now, This government has been slowly but steadily building an autocracy in this country. Many call it a hybrid regime or half-blown autocracy. We do have an election, it is a free election, but it's not a fair election, for multiple reasons.

"And for the past 15 years, they have been building up their propaganda machine, they have been doing such a state capture pretty much few others have done, but something in the past one year has changed: two major things have changed.

"Exactly one year ago, we had a very big scandal here in Hungary, when the President had to resign because they gave a presidential pardon to a person who had helped a paedophile, and that was a very big scandal, and ever since, the government and Fidesz have been … it has been very hard for them to control the narrative, something they do very well, most of the time.

"In the past 15 years I can only remember a few occasions when the opposition or somebody else controlled the narrative, and not the governing party.

"And obviously, after this huge scandal, a new party and new opposition leader has emerged, Peter Magyar, who comes from within the system so to say, from Fidesz, and he is a serious opposition for the government. So, that's one thing.

"For the government, for the past 15 years, there have only been a few times when they've had a real opposition, and a real enemy, so to say, that could challenge them in an election.

"The other very important change that's happened in the last couple of months is international relations: Donald Trump got elected, and this basically made the Hungarian government and Orbán much braver than before, because in Orbán's view in the past year, they had two big, international opposition [groups], the Biden administration and the European Union, and now the Biden administration is out of the picture, and they have Donald Trump, who is a big supporter of Orbán, refers to Orbán as someone who is a role model, who is someone who showed how to govern in a conservative manner, how to be anti-gender, anti-immigration, yah di ja, you know all the usual patterns.

"So there is a strong relationship between Trump and Orbán, at least that is what Orbán thinks. I don't think that Trump cares about Hungary or Orbán, but, in Orbán Viktor's mind, and the politicians of Fidesz, they think they have a strong supporter in Trump, [whatever], at least they don't have an adversary from the United States, that's for sure.

"So, now the only real outside enemy is the European Union, and the EU has many, many more issues and problems besides Orbán, so obviously, they cannot focus on Hungary that much, and they are also out of tools basically to use against Hungary.

"So now they feel that now is the time to further their grip on this country and society, and this is how they started.

"Two months ago, the PM had his speech, his annual review, where he talked about banning Pride and going against the enemy from within, anyone who received funds, whatever that means, from abroad, journalists, judges, opposition politicians, NGOs, everyone pretty much who is against the government.

"So, it's very clear that in the next one year they will do everything in their power to stay in power.

"They have all the necessary tools, the necessary funds, and they have zero moral obstacles or any other ethical problems doing these things, things that we've already seen in Turkey, Russia, Turkmenistan, countries where Pride is already banned, and there is a very strong, autocratic leader, who captured the state and who slowly but steadily built up their grip on society and pretty much everything in the country.

"So, in my perspective, this banning of Pride and changing the law on general assembly is the first step on a very bumpy and very hard road they are about [to create].

They are obviously worried about next year's elections, and they will do everything in their power to win that election, including, obviously, changing the election law, we've seen that many times in this country, changing the constitution, they are doing that now for the fifteenth time now in 15 years,"

Moderator: This was the constitution "set in stone"?

Dávid Bedő: "Exactly, the constitution set in stone, written originally by József Szájer, the guy who climbed down a drainpipe in Brussels.

"So, the banning of pride is one of their first steps, and it's not just about Pride, it's about any assembly that is organised by the opposition and pretty much organised on a topic that they feel that it can be dangerous to the government and their current power.

"And I think the more important part of this law is the use of facial recognition tools, because they are already using it. The current protests that are ongoing, where we are doing blockades on bridges, they are already issuing fines.

"This is a very smart tool that they are using, because instead of dispersing the crowd with police force, with water or tear gas, which is a very visible, public thing, the pictures go to all the world, they are just quietly issuing fines in the background and pretty much telling the country you shouldn't go out and protest because we are going take away your savings, your money.

"So, that is what is really dangerous about all this, and that is why we have been trying to show that this is much, much more than just about the Pride, it's about our right to assemble, and hopefully more and more people will join.

"But my main message here is that this is only the first step that they are taking in this one year campaign, and we're going to see many more laws enacted and passed in parliament that are very much against any democracy or any rule of law."

Editorial Note: On April 15, the Hungarian Parliament adopted its 15th constitutional amendment.

The changes include:

Mandating binary gender recognition in the Constitution

Allowing the suspension of citizenship for dual nationals deemed “disloyal”

Empowering authorities to restrict LGBTQ+ events, citing “child protection”